SHOCK: For First Time Ever Pope to Allow Reading of Quran and Islamic Prayers at Vatican This Sunday!

SHOCK: For First Time Ever Pope to Allow Reading of Quran and Islamic Prayers at Vatican This Sunday!

The Muslim world is finding much to rejoice about in a confusing and quite shocking decision made by the Pope. The Pope will allow Muslims to read from the Quran and chant Islamic prayers from the Vatican in a move said to promote peace.

More here.

For the first time in history, Islamic prayers and readings from the Quran will be heard at the Vatican on Sunday, in a move by Pope Francis to usher in peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

Problem is, in many instances the Quran promotes violence and war. The Quran calls for forced conversion of all Catholics to Islam, so I fail to see how allowing its words to flow through the Vatican is a good thing.

Just how bad is the Quran when it comes to tolerance of the Catholic faith?

You be the judge.

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called ‘hypocrites’ and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways. Most of today’s Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book’s call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad’s own martial legacy – and that of his companions – along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

  • Jkc

    Crazy

  • Tom Casarella

    Maybe throw in some devil worship too what the hay

    • Zachary Davis

      Next time why don’t he invite the Satanists as well as the Muslims? I am sure the two will get along fine.

      • Dani California

        No, probably not

        • Donald Belcher

          there is no difference, so why NOT invite Satanists if you are going to invite muslims?

          • Dani California

            well Muslims worship god, satanists worship satan. That’s kind of a big difference

          • Donald Belcher

            no, Muslims worship satan, just as satanists, do…again, no difference at all…but then again, the pope worships satan, so I suppose you are right on a certain level…

          • Dani California

            Dude, do you even know what a Muslim is? They worship God, it’s kind of their thing.

          • Donald Belcher

            they worship THEIR, “god”, which is, in reality, SATAN…you are obviously far too stupid to understand, but that’s par for the course these days

  • Maranatha2011

    Hmmmm. Where do you suppose this is going? Hint: One world government/religion; Antichrist/False Prophet…

  • skoot skoot

    Can I have my reading with bacon please?

  • Jeanette Victoria

    We have a pretender in the Vatican

    • John

      He is true to evil,not pretender.only people are blind,FOR U SHALL KNOW BY THEIR WORKS

      • Dani California

        The man who feeds the poor and cracks down on Church corruption is the evil one?

        • Jonathan

          By condoning Islam he encourages apostasy and damnation

          • Dani California

            Right…. forget that he’s done more to help the poor than anyone pope in recent history. He doesn’t hate the “enemy” enough; he’s not radical enough so he’s got to go

          • helinski

            You could construe that same logic to make Obama a savior — with all the obama phones and welfare his dolled out at the expense of the private working sector. I guess we should just worship him now, like we do the pope…right?

          • Dani California

            Oh my god shut up. Stop trying to bring Obama bashing into everything because you think you understand it and wanna sound smart. This has nothing to do with Obama, go bash him on some other page

          • helinski

            Obama and the Pope are peas on the same pod. Don’t see much difference. Both are islamic and proud of it.

          • Dani California

            GO BE STUPID SOMEWHERE ELSE PLZ KTHANXBYE

          • mastersoftheobvious

            We love ya Dani but don’t scream that someone else is stupid after the things you have said. Please.

          • Dani California

            that helping the poor makes you a good person? what a moronic thought

          • mastersoftheobvious

            Obama has been promoting Islam to the detriment of America and the world, so it has everything to do with Obama.

          • Dani California

            dude he just isn’t. I’m no fan of him, but he’s just not Muslim. He constantly breaks Muslim code, so if he is Muslim he’d be sending himself to hell

          • Jonathan

            Jesus said this, “and the poor have the gospel preached to them.” That is what Jesus did, becuase He was not rich in this world, but He gave them riches from heaven. Because in heaven He is rich beyond anything you can imagine. So He gave them true riches. That is more important than giving them any amount of food for this short life. Because man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God. I’m not knocking this pope if he has helped the poor that is good. But, teaching false doctrine is not helping the poor.

          • Jonathan

            he’s the pope, the pretended leader of Christainity on earth(what a lie, but I digress) and you think he shouldn’t be a little bit radical for Christ?

          • marylamb72

            I like the Pope so don’t get me wrong but what has he actually DONE besides not ride in a secure vehicle and wear different clothes? He talks a good game but then in his first Apostolic Exhortation of 288 paragraphs he quoted JP II Benedict and other Popes and Vatican II 217 times. He really is not saying anything DIFFERENT he is just saying it differently.

          • judethom

            You are correct. What else can it mean? It gives validity and legitimacy to Islam, as if one “truth” was just as good as another “truth.”

          • QuoVadisAnima

            Well if you can’t think of what else it could mean, then he must be guilty! Never mind that he condemns relativism as does the Catholic Church, it can only be as you see it…

          • QuoVadisAnima

            Right, that’s why masses of Christians have been converting to Islam…

          • marylamb72

            He is not doing anything not approved in the Catechism. If you haven’t read it you should. Then you will know if you choose to leave the Catholic Church.

        • Americana_D

          Surrounded by treasure, priceless works of art, and jewels of all sort, he admonishes us to do more for the poor?! Hypocrite personified.

          • Darran McDonnell

            That treasure, priceless works of art and “jewels of all sort” don’t belong to Pope Francis. They are things that have been freely gifted, made or donated by individual faithful Catholics over a period of 2000 years, for the glory of God and the reverent adornment of Holy things.

            …and most of it isn’t as valuable as you assume. Or sell-able. For an unnamed and forgotten member of the faithful to make a statue for his favourite Saint at their tomb doesn’t strike us as odd today. The same thing happened in the 9th century. All of a sudden it is the 21st century and we assume these “antiques” are worth masses of money. No, they are worth masses of sentiment. Don’t listen to anti-Catholics, some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

          • Carol McNally

            GOD HATES IDOLS … GOD HATES SIN… CATHOLICS WILL BELIEVE ANYTHING IF THE POPE TELLS THEM TO… THEY WILL FOLLOW ALLAH … OR ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY THINK HE IS GOD ON THIS EARTH… ITS CALLED BRAIN WASHING .. JESUS LOVES YOU TURN TO JESUS ….CALL ON HIM AND HE WILL SAVE YOUR SOUL FROM HELL.

          • judethom

            Shut up and study history. The ancient Jewish temple that Jesus visited when he was alive was a magnificent powerhouse filled with gold, moasics, icons, incense and such. Nothing was too good for the worship of God. Jesus accepted this.

          • Americana_D

            Read the history recorded in the Bible. Jesus was seeking those to worship Him in spirit and in truth (John 4:24), not with empty sacrifices. He had no use for their things because everything is and was His to begin with (Psalm 50:7-10). Jesus despised how the priesthood, scribes, and Pharisees corrupted the faith and temple worship (e.g., Luke 20:46-47). I encourage you to read Matthew 23:1-32 and compare the Pharisees to Catholic Priests in general. Besides, there is but one way that a man may be saved and that is by trusting in the risen Christ alone. One does not have to go through the Pope, a priest, or the Catholic church to trust Christ alone for salvation. I’m sure we can at least agree on that without offending one another.

          • Darran McDonnell

            Catholics don’t worship idols. They don’t love sin. They don’t believe anything the Pope tells them to do (unless it is De Fide, which is very rare, and scriptural). They don’t follow allah. They don’t think that the Pope is God on Earth. You really need to fact check what you read, or what people tell you before you believe them. Especially when it involves insinuating that people will go to Hell. If we will talk about brainwashing, we could point out that many people will believe anything they are told, providing it is against Christ’s Church.

            And Americana_D, really? We don’t offer animals as sacrifice in the temple. (Temple sacrifices weren’t wrong before, they were necessary for the forgiveness of sins, God ordered them to be done. They are only empty sacrifices now as Jesus has instituted a new sacrifice.). Jesus despised the hypocrisy of -some- Pharisees and teachers of the law. He didn’t despise the priesthood that God the Father instituted. That would imply a contradiction.

            It also so-happens that just as God founded the priesthood of the Old Testament, He also founded a new priesthood in the New Testament, in both Common and Ministerial forms. It so happens that these people you are criticising are actually valid priests, ordained by a Bishop who was ordained by a Bishop who was ordained by one of the 12 Apostles. And you want to compare them to pharisees. Not even some of them, but all of them? This is hateful. But perhaps you are only quoting what you have heard, in which case you might not be so guilty, but you really should take this opportunity to learn more about the Church.

            And I’m not being condescending in saying this, so don’t read me that way. The Church really is a very important and incredibly intriguing topic, it deserves to be researched well. I could recommend Catholic.com, it is the Catholic Answers website and has lots of reading material on hundreds of topics as well as a decent web forum. It is very good.

            But I have to say, trust alone isn’t the “only way” a man can be saved. The scriptures don’t say this, either. We are to be entirely faithful to God, to all of His plans and commands. Even to His own Church that He founded on St Peter.

            God Bless.

          • Americana_D

            Darran,

            I was responding to someone who attempted to justify donations of great treasure and wealth to the Catholic church by equating them with Old Testament sacrifice. I know that Catholic doctrine does not call for animal sacrifice.

            I’m sure you will agree with me that a disappointing number of Catholic priests beg comparison to the Pharisaical conduct Jesus condemned. This does not mean that all do. Nor does this fact excuse leaders of other “Christian” factions who likewise do.

            The “rock” Jesus was referring to was the truth contained in Peter’s declaration that Jesus is the Christ and Son of the Living God. Matthew 16:16. It is upon this truth that the true church is built.

            Scripture clearly and unambiguously states that salvation rests on the sole grounds of faith in (trusting of) the risen Christ. “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:31 Elsewhere, but not limited to, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9
            Darran, are you entirely faithful to God, to all His plans and commands? I didn’t think so. Neither was Peter (neither before or after Christ’s resurrection). I certainly don’t claim to be despite my sincere desire. There is hope, however, as there is one who is, and His righteousness can be credited to your account on the sole basis of faith. I’m speaking of Jesus the Christ our savior and high priest. Hebrews 5:1-10.
            Grace and Peace to you, Darran . . .

          • Darran McDonnell

            Americana_D.

            But the person you were responding too wasn’t attempting to justify donations to the Church by equating them with Old Testament Sacrifice. He simply pointed out that the innards of the Temple, that God commanded to be made, contained gold and precious things and that therefore these things cannot be claimed to be bad. He didn’t mention sacrifice at all.

            I would agree with you so far as to say that any number of priests that compare to the pharisees is dissapointing, even if it is just one, but you weren’t referring to bad examples in your earlier reply, you determined that all priests were pharisees – “I encourage you to read Matthew 23:1-32 and compare the Pharisees to Catholic Priests in general”.

            The “Rock” Jesus was referring to was Peter. Our Lords words were: “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you that you are Cephas (rock), and on this Cephas (rock) I build My Church, and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it. I give you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatsoever you bind on Earth is bound in Heaven and whatsoever you loose on Earth is loosed in Heaven.”

            Jesus said: “You are Cephas, AND on this cephas”. Not “you are Cephas, BUT on this cephas”. Jesus also used the word “you” seven times here. To say that He was referring to someone other than Peter just does not fit the context of the text. As well as this, Jesus is referring to Himself as the builder, not the building. Earlier in Matt 7:24, Jesus was the “wise man that build his house upon the rock”. Our Lord is giving context to Peter’s change of name and giving him authority. The early Christians followed this interpretation as well.

            Even the keys to the Kingdom have a parallel to Isaiah 22:20 where Eliakim was the keeper of keys and the master of the palace of King Hezekiah. The master of the palace was second to the king, but acted with his authority.

            But those verses you have quoted don’t “unambiguously state that salvation rests on the sole grounds of faith”. They stress the importance of faith, but they don’t say that it ALONE is what guarantees salvation. James 2:24-26 says: “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone…. …..faith without works is dead”.

            On this, the Church’s position really is spot on.

          • Americana_D

            Darran, James is not saying that you can be justified by works. If so, James would be contradicting himself because he just got finished saying in chapter 1 “Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above . . . . In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth . . . .” James 1:16-18. In this passage, James clearly states that our salvation is God’s gift which is accomplished by the exercise of His will (not our works).

            Look again at James 2:17: “Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.” What James is conveying here is that the faith one claims he has is authentic only when it is accompanied by works. Using a coin as an example: If the coin blank is only imprinted on one side it is worthless as it lacks the markings necessary to authenticate its
            value. With true saving faith, you will always find the imprint of repentance and works consistent with that faith. Salvation is not acquired by works, but the reality of saving faith is demonstrated by works. Further in chapter 2, James expounds upon his point by giving us the example of Abraham.

            James states that Abraham’s offering of Isaac was proof that the faith he
            already had was alive and genuine. As you know, Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice his son was not how he obtained righteousness. You’ll remember that Abraham was reckoned righteous by God before Isaac was even born. See Genesis 15:6 which James quotes.

            Now James would be contradicting Paul if he meant to say that Abraham secured his justification by good works. Paul went to great lengths to explain that Abraham was not justified by works, but by faith (see all of Romans chpt. 4). Elsewhere Paul states that ” . . . by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight . . . .” Romans 3:20. Specifically regarding the example of Abraham, Paul says ” [f]or if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about . . . .” Romans 4:2. But in Ephesians, Paul confirms that salvation is by faith “not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” Ephesians 2:9.

            Darran, scripture clearly states that God is our only savior. If my works contributed to my salvation then God AND I would be responsible for my salvation (He for his part, and me for closing the deal with my good works), and I would have every reason to boast (heaven forbid). Sola scriptura. Sola fide. Sola gratia. Solus Christus. Soli Deo Gloria. Are you saying that I will die in my sins if I truly trust in the risen Christ alone for my salvation? What must a man do to be saved?

          • Darran McDonnell

            Americana_D, I’m sorry! I think you have misread me. I said that salvation is a free gift of God and isn’t earned by anything we do, yet faith AND works are nevertheless necessary for salvation. This is the teaching of the Church.

            Faith alone = insufficient (James 2:24-26)
            Works without faith = also insufficient, as you mention.

            This fits rather well with Abraham’s sacrifice. God desired from a work to prove his faith. Consider it if Abraham had said “this requires work. God will save me by faith regardless, I don’t need to prove it”. It wouldn’t have ended so well for him.

            It isn’t an either-or dilema, it is a both-and. Faith and works are necessary for salvation, though neither earn it. This is the only way to avoid contradiction.

            But I want to mention one last thing, only because it was mentioned, when the crowds used those very same words on Pentecost: “What must a man do to be saved?” St Peter told them to do two things, repent and be baptised. The scriptures also mention other things that are necessary for salvation, such as obedience, charity and the like, but it doesn’t ever say that they earn it.

            We just cannot say that faith alone (alone the operative word) obtains salvation. Maybe your definition is faith is quite broad – I’m not criticising this, if that is true I think we might have been arguing over nothing as that would not conflict with Church teaching at all, just minus the word “alone”.

          • QuoVadisAnima

            And I would encourage you to look at the writings of the early Church and the first generations of believers to learn the teaching of the Apostles – which is the teaching of Jesus Christ. (If you cannot trust that, then you cannot trust the New Testament either)

          • Americana_D

            I respectfully disagree Quo. While early church writings may have some value, the New Testament cannon has no equal as regards all matters of faith and practice. Specifically concerning the matter of soteriology, the New Testament is complete and contains everything one would need to know to come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ. To the extent these other writings address salvation, they are therefore unnecessary. To the extent they alter one’s understanding of the nature of salvation, they are anathema. Galatians 1:9

          • QuoVadisAnima

            How do you know that the New Testament is what you believe it is?

            And why do you trust the Lord to prevent the gates of hell from prevailing against His Word but not His Church (especially considering that His Word tells us that it was His Church He promised to protect – and that promise was given without an expiration date)?

            And if the NT is all that is needed for salvation, then why are there so many disagreements from Sola Scriptura adherents as to what precisely is necessary for salvation?

          • Americana_D

            The witness of the Holy Spirit, the number of extant manuscripts, internal consistency, consistency between manuscripts, etc. A more comprehensive explanation can be found in books such as “Why you can have confidence in the Bible” by Harold Sala.

            Quo, you reference God’s word to support your position but, honestly, do you believe the New Testament is God’s infallible word? You start out by questioning it. I’d like for you to explain just why the New Testament is incomplete as regards the essentials of salvation.

            I’m not questioning God’s love and care for the Church. As regards the alleged teachings of the apostles and church fathers not contained in the New Testament, I don’t elevate those to the level of scripture because they lack the authenticating qualities I cite above.

            There are so many disagreements because men eisegete the text (i.e., interpret a text or portion of text in such a way that it introduces their own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text).

          • QuoVadisAnima

            No, Americana, I do not question the inspiration of the New Testament at all. I posed the question to you as I am trying to understand how you can question the reliability of those witnesses who were passing on Christ’s teaching before the NT was “enscripturated”. Are you unaware that they were reading epistles from men like Clement of Rome to early believers in Church right along with those documents that would eventually become part of the NT?

            How is it that you cannot trust the teaching & leadership of those first Christians who were following the inspiration of the Holy Spirit all the way to the arena and Nero’s garden parties, but you can trust the documents they produced in cooperation with that same Holy Spirit – and the Church leaders who later determined thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit which of those documents should be part of the Canon of Scripture? If you cannot trust their judgment, then you cannot trust the NT because they were the witnesses and the instruments of that gift from the Holy Spirit.

            The number of manuscripts and their consistency can be supportive of the assertion of inspiration, but none of these things is capable of proving inspiration as there are other historical works that can make such claims that we do not consider Scriptural. Trust me, spend some time talking with some of the less rabid atheists out there and they’ll start with the Code of Hammurabi and pick up speed from there.

            The number of manuscripts, etc, will be argued to be a result of the obsessive devotion of fanatics following leaders who told them the texts were from God. The other historical documents then, may lack the qualities of quantity and consistency, but that merely points to their not having the same “favor” or dedicated followings.

            And the prophetic aspects of Scripture are explained away just as dismissively – either things were written after the fact and altered to look like they came before, prophecies were written ambiguously enough to be extremely flexible in their interpretation and applied where desired to make them fit. or alternatively they assert that they predicted something that was obvious. No, Scripture’s historicity lends credible support, but it is not enough for Scripture to witness to Itself. We humans are too easily deceived.

            Leading into your last statement which actually supports my question to you – if the NT is intended to stand alone, then why is there so much confusion about what we must do to be saved? Why do you believe that the Lord would leave His flock in such spiritually dangerous uncertainty where each person decides for themselves what the text means?

            Especially when Scripture tells us that He is not the God of confusion so why believe would He leave us to such anarchy? Confusion and division come from satan. The fruit of Sola Scriptura (a novel man-made notion unknown prior to the Reformation) has been nothing but confusion and division.

            And how does the notion of Sola Scriptura fit in with the New Covenant Davidic Kingdom that Jesus came to establish, when Sola Scriptura instead hearkens back to the confused time of the Judges, before Israel had a king who set up a hierarchical governing leadership for the country, when each man did (and believed) what was right in his own eyes?

            Especially when Scripture itself testifies to the authority of the Church to settle these doctrinal and theological disputes. Matthew 18:17 instructs us to take unresolved disagreements to the Church – which Church?

    • judethom

      A total pretender. This is quite absurd and shocking.

    • lori

      and i have a pretender president…..sick …….all of it……..

  • Kaiser Louis-Philip V

    There’s a lot we still don’t know here. I’d advise withholding judgment until we know more.

    • Tyler Lorge

      OOOH SHUT UP ! !!!! DONT YE GET IT YET ??? :( DUHHH”

    • mzungu

      It isn’t really a judgement it is more of a thermometer reading. Is the Catholic church hot or cold or even lukewarm. Jesus said if you are (a lukewarm church) I will spit you out of my mouth. Said by Jesus to the church of Laodicea by letter in Revelation 3.

    • Sharon Moore

      All I NEED TO KNOW IS SEEING IS BELIEVING..IF I SEE IT I WILL DENOUNCE MY CATHOLIC RELIGION…I AM WELL DONE,TURN ME OVER AND STICK ME WITH A FORK,I AM B.U.R.N.T.

      WTF,A CULT WITH BARBARIC ANIMALS…..

  • mzungu

    The doors of our Southern Baptist Churches welcome our Catholic friends as soon as they’ve had enough! Please take my advice and leave your Catholic church and run to the nearest evangelical church to find out what you’ve been missing all these years!

    • Andrew Hinton

      Why, because the Orthodox Church will welcome them back to the original faith..

      • Darran McDonnell

        Or they could avoid heresy altogether and remain in the Church Christ founded.

        • Donald Belcher

          which is WHAT CHURCH? Christ did NOT, at ANY POINT, found the Catholic Church…This TOTALLY unbiblical and baseless nonsense is what drives people to have such disdain for Catholics…if you want to be a part of the church of satan (the Catholic Church), you are welcome. Heck, there will for sure be a number of Catholics in heaven, as they are true Christians and simply not intelligent enough (or too brainwashed from childhood) to see the glaring falsehoods that surround everything “Catholic”…but again, if one is to, “avoid heresy altogether”, they will be RUNNING away from the Catholic Church

          • Carol McNally

            JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN CALL ON HIM TODAY ROMANS 10 : 9:10… JESUS IS THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE NO MAN CAN GO TO HEAVEN EXCEPT TRUE JESUS… CALL ON HIM NOW … AND YOUR LIFE WILL CHANGE , I AM NOT TELLING YOU TO GO TO ANY CHURCH JESUS AND YOU IS ALL IT TAKES AND HIS WORD THE BIBLE.

          • Donald Belcher

            why are you replying to ME with this, Carol? I worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and have a personal relationship with Christ (as I’m commanded)…my comment was about this RIDICULIOUS notion that Christ ordained/created the catholic church…as you just said, the ONLY thing necessary for salvation is myself and my God, through Christ (no popes, no priests, no mother mary necessary)

          • Boras

            By that argument the Bible is unbiblical, as it wasn’t written by Jesus. Baseless argument.

          • Donald Belcher

            Boras, Darran said that one could “avoid heresy”, by, “remain(ing) in the Church Christ founded”…seeing as Christ did NOT found ANY church (other than the body of believers known as, “the church”, which refers to every single Christian on earth, NOT the Catholic Church)…so his claim the Christ founded Catholicism, is baseless and unbiblical, as they text of the bible doesn’t support said claim

          • Boras

            Nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus use the word “Bible” or demand that his followers should base their lives on the Bible alone, yet he uses the word “Church” frequently and uses many metaphors for the church, such as the vine and branches. The earliest Christians who were instructed by disciples of Jesus’ disciples refer to the church as Catholic: “Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” – St Ignatius of Antioch in AD 107, a community formed by St Paul. Your claim that Jesus didn’t form a Church is unbiblical and nonsense. Jesus expressly used the phrase “I will build my Church” in Matthew’s Church and envisioned it as one, as in John’s Gospel, chapter 17. I would respectfully suggest your ideas on the Bible are extraneous to the Bible that didn’t exist for 1500 years, they are novel ideas far from the original teaching as practiced by early Christianity and at odds with it, of which St Paul and others warned against. It was St Paul that taught that Jesus’ Church is one body – not just a conglomeration of individuals, which is the heretical reformation idea. With respect, I reject your ideas as unbiblical; they filter a reading of the Bible in sync with reformation fads, that have led to a farcical situation of 30,000 christian denominations which is at total odds with Jesus’ wish in the garden of Gethsemane, “may all of them be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.” The unity of the Church is vital so that Christian evangelisation is credible.

          • Donald Belcher

            you are pointing to Catholic dogma to reaffirm Catholicism? I never said Jesus used the word, “bible”, but IF you believe that the bible IS the Word of God, then you must admit that nothing even close to the Catholic church, priests, the pope, ect is mentioned in it or commanded through it…I honestly couldn’t care less about, “St Ignatius of Antioch in AD 107″, as what you’ve quoted him as saying is ALSO unbiblical…

            Jesus said, “I will build my church”, SOLELY referring to growing the numbers of the faithful, and their totality being, “the church”…he was talking about amassing numbers starting with Peter as their original spiritual leader, NOTHING past that…if you can show me a BIBLICAL reference to a permanent line of succession, I concede my point (but you can’t, because there is no such scripture).

            I guess you aren’t understanding what I mean in reference to, “the church”…it is ONE BODY, in that we have a unifying spirit (the Holy Spirit) and a single Lord and Savior, a single mission, etc…but again, the idea of some ongoing hierarchy is no where to be found, outside of the appointment of elders.

            I appreciate the respect you are showing, and I reciprocate…however, the very graven images of the dead that you seek comfort and solace in are themselves considered evil by the Word, and I direct violation of not only the 2nd commandment, but many other verses in scripture…the evil of the Catholic church is widely known, from the atrocities of the Crusades, to the molestation scandals, to the witch trials, and so forth…

            if the Pope and, “the Church” are infallible, then there is simply no way these things would have occurred…if they are NOT infallible, then the entire of Catholic dogma is built on a lie, no?

          • Boras

            Firstly, I don’t hold as you do that doctrine is built out of the Bible, 500 years of protestantism shows that people can draw whatever they like to prove a point. The Bible is there to refute what is false, but doctrine grows out of tradition. The cloths mentioned in the Bible from Jesus resurrection opened a new understanding of the image of Jesus as the image of God, and they are not graven. Recent documentaries have shown beyond all reasonable doubt that the Turin shroud is indeed the shrouds of Jesus. Papal infallibility is misunderstood by you, with respect, it comes with very limiting circumstances, where the Pope can be said to speak infallibly. There are only two incidences of that since the doctrine was defined in the 19th century -and it was defined precisely so as NOT to give the idea abroad that infallibility is everywhere and anytime the gift of the Pope. The individualistic notion of the Church -which you subscribe to- is a protestant invention. It is part and parcel of American culture, it may appear to be self-evident to you as a result. But it isn’t the idea that will emerge if you study the bible properly, particularly St Paul’s teaching on the nature of the Church. An individualistic interpretation is an impoverished. We see clearly Jesus forming a hierarchy even among the disciples. He had his inner 3 – Peter, James and John: if you discount that Jesus was forming a hierarchy, then the conclusion you can draw from a fair reading of the gospels is that Jesus was showing favouritism to them. But God doesn’t have favourites, so clearly it was a hierarchical structure from the word go. The early tradition which grew out of the early disciples reveals clearly that.

            I feel you have failed to understand the whole mission and purpose of Christ: the Word became Flesh, the Incarnation. To think that only the Bible matters is to fail to grasp the incarnation. The Word has become flesh, but you want to turn the clock back when there was just the Word. You simply don’t get it.

          • Donald Belcher

            Thank you for the clarification of papal infallibility…I honestly had no idea (as you would assume), and thought it pertained to most anything the Pope, “decreed”…so let me ask this (and I appreciate the respectful back and forth, I’m always eager to learn), can a pope himself be an evil man? Do you believe that God places who HE wants as pope, or is it possible that the council of cardinals makes mistakes as well, and a truly evil man could gain control of, “the Church”?

          • Boras

            Yes, a pope can be an evil man (I don’t think anyone is absolutely evil, we are all human so composed of varying amounts of both good and evil). No one is immune from evil. There have been Popes who have been bad in their personal lives and yet somehow have been faithful in their exercise of the office, and there have been some so bad that they have nearly driven the Church into the ground. (Pope Benedict said that himself when he was a cardinal). But I would caution in taking a pre-judgement on this, as we’re all human. Somehow, the holy spirit keeps the Church in tact, despite the sinfulness of the humans running the Church. The biggest miracle is how the Church has survived 2000 years of persecution, but more so the sinfulness within. That was the case from the beginning, the behaviour of the first disciples during the passion and afterwards makes really clear that human beings are capable of betrayal and sinfulness. Yet, God reveals through Jesus that he somehow has time for us, bad though we are. He has confidence that he can transform our sinfulness. That is the big mystery – why does he put such faith in our ability to change – unless it is not us, but because of God that we can make that change.

          • Donald Belcher

            when, in all of history, has the Catholic Church been persecuted? I ask this in all honesty, seeing as, outside the 1st century church (which wasn’t the Catholic Church, but simply the Apostles and their followers), it has been the Catholic Church itself that has been the main global force of persecution…from its formation, the Catholic church has been raping, murdering and torturing any and all that oppose it, and only recently has it become a force for good…

            I suppose, if you are saying that those evils were simply the, “growing pains” as imperfect men did as best they could to spread the gospel worldwide, that I can understand where you are coming from, but as I see it, it appears that the Catholic Church will likely be at the epicenter of the one world government and one world religion that must form in order to fulfill the end times…

            Do you see that as a possibility? And lastly, do you believe my soul to be damned because I reject Catholicism, while wholly accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior?

          • Boras

            I would rather ask when has the Catholic Church, or Christians in general, not being persecuted? It was Christ, who promised that all who follow him would experience persecution. It wasn’t just in the first century that the Catholic Church was persecuted but it is always persecuted, whether accused of evils, its members attacked and killed, etc. this goes on all the time, the greatest number have died -as a result- in the past 100 years. Christ started a universal Church and as I have already taught you, it is a matter of history not conjecture that from the earliest days it was known as the Catholic Church, 107AD. That was an oral truth and a lived belief before it was a written idea, same as with the gospels. This phrase was used in the creed too, so this is part and parcel of Christian belief, well established in the first centuries. The Church is composed of sinful people so the raping, murdering, etc was done by all people at all times, so it isn’t anything peculiar to the Church. But there were saints at all times too, the best excellencies among people too. This one world government idea is an anti-semitic idea from the 19th century which grew out of prejudice against religious minorities in America – ie Catholics and Jews. I have no time or truck for that prejudice or similar conspiracy theories. (Using the Bible for prejudice makes it worse). I think you have wholly accepted your idea of Jesus, but have you wholly accepted Jesus as your Lord and Saviour? You have partially rejected his bride the Church, which is also the net that catches the good and the bad, so that he says to his first followers “I will make you fishers of men”. (There is a mechnism in place in the world, by which Jesus makes his apostles – those he sends- fishers of men. The sacraments are the tools that join Jesus invisible saving to the visible acts of the Church. Jesus as presented in the Bible is not just a charismatic Jesus, he is a sacramental Jesus, who shocks the Jews by referring to eating his body and blood. He has a flock and he is a shepherd. “I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also.” The Sheep pen is the Church of Christ which subsists in the Catholic Church but stretches out invisibly to include all Christians who truly follow him. It is not for me to judge anyone’s worthiness before the Lord – Who am I to judge? – but in general terms if you are aware of the Lord’s will and go against it, that would be a matter that calls into question one’s salvation. It is not for me to second guess or judge your own conscience. If you are serious about learning the truth, rather than playing games with your own salvation, I would suggest reading the works of the earliest Christians, for example, the Church Fathers, the Greek or Latin. You don’t need me to teach you, you can work it out for yourself. Read them and ask yourself: does what they teach sound more like Catholicism or the particular brand of Christianity you believe in?

          • Donald Belcher

            I’m not asking you to teach me, and I would prefer you not speak down to me as though you have, but that is neither here nor there…you are sharing a different viewpoint, but that is hardly, “teaching me”…the only reason I am engaging in this discussion, is that I’ve never met a catholic that could respond and debate with reason and knowledge, it is usually just a, “shouting match”…I have no desire for such things, but I do enjoy our back and forth.
            So you reject the notion that the anti-Christ will join together all the nations of the earth under one banner? Do you reject Revelation entirely? I’ve always thought this was a universal understanding of the end times, and you are the first person I’ve met to voice this belief.
            As far as Catholicism being the idea from the beginning, I would pose this question…if you were satan, and you knew that the Word would spread regardless, how would you best insure that as many people as possible were led astray? I would think that you would IMMIDIATELY place a cancer into Christianity (as a religion) and help it grow along with the numbers of the faithful…it is my belief that satan, “founded” the Catholic Church as it is today, and by so doing it has been all too easy for him to lead billions down the path that leads to destruction…even you seem to think that the longevity of the Church is somehow testimony to its righteousness, whereas I see it as the most likely manifestation of what I would do, if I were satan

          • Boras

            I’m sorry for the supercilious tone, you are right, I should see it as dialogue. I don’t reject revelation neither. Anti-Christ is more insidious and more obvious than that literal interpretation of the allegory of revelation. There was a very text composed by those close to the apostles which describes the way that leads to life and the way that leads to death. I forget the name of it- I’ll look it up later. It was written on or at the time of the gospels. It is the key to understanding revelations which was written in about 90 ad one generation from the first use of word Catholic. In every generation there are those whether in the church or not who follow the anti Christ and the anti gospel. The sign of it is obvious – being anti-life, anti-family, anti whatever is good. We’d call it the culture of death today.

    • judethom

      The Orthodox Church is the original Church of Christ.

  • lori

    W T F this is sick………. rofl… we allllllll gonna get a huge lesson…..for all the fools who never ever use their brain…… Obama’s new friend I guess……

    • Dani California

      omg ur so smeart

      • Alexander Rodriguez

        Catholic, baptist, orthodox it doesn’t matter, there should not be any division in the church of Christ. If you are strong in faith and you see others slipping away. You most try to up lift that person and bring them back to Christ. Teach the word, some no more and other no less. What the pope is doing the spirit is telling me to prepare and have no fear. It told before hand. READ and pray fervently.

  • Ron Williamson

    Nothing surprises me anymore. This though, is just downright wrong. Their religion has no place in our society, unless you want your head cut off.

    • judethom

      Francis is a naive fool.

  • Dani California

    So what, there’s phrases in the bible about beating slaves and stoning women. You’re no better than they are, so stop passing judgement.

  • ClareClare

    Did anybody here actually READ THE TEXT of what’s actually going to happen at the Vatican? It’s right there on the Vatican website…

    For starters, they’re meeting in the Vatican Gardens. NOT in St. Peter’s Basilica. They’re going to be outdoors, and they’re going to read some Psalms in Hebrew, a prayer written by St John Paul II, another by St. Francis of Assisi (in Arabic), and then some Arabic prayers which are probably from the Koran but which seem like more St. Francis, from the sound of them:

    http://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/it/bollettino/pubblico/2014/06/07/0415/00948.html#Testi in lingua inglese

    So maybe before you start moaning and complaining, and calling the Pope and all Catholics derogatory names, you ought to find out the FACTS. Ya think?

    • bobby

      And the reason they do it is because of the sheeple that accept it. It does not matter WHERE it’s being done; the point is that it IS being done. “In the last days some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons.” You and those like you are primed for a New World Order — enjoy your freedom…..while it lasts.

      And those professing to be Christians because they “attend church” and are “a good person” better wake up and read your bibles. In the book of Revelation, which by the way is taking place before our very eyes today, Jesus warns those who are lukewarm that they will be spewed (vomited) out of his mouth. It’s not about religion; it’s about RELATIONSHIP with our savior. Don’t position yourself to be told, “Depart from me; I never knew you.”

  • Sam Vats

    The Pope is just busy fulfilling what was written over 2,000 years ago in the Holy Bible .

    • Donald Belcher

      exactly…my only problem with all this is that so many good people in the Catholic Church will be pulled down to hell with him, simply because they are too ignorant to see what is happening…all the way to the pit, they will believe they are doing God’s work :-(

    • Boras

      The Bible was written over decades and finally settled upon for definite in the 3rd or 4th century. It was authorised by guess who? The Catholic Church. The Catholic Church’s interpretations of the Bible are in line with the earliest Christians, as found in the Church Fathers, eg St Ignatius, etc. – whereas many of the evangelical interpretations have no early historical counterpart, but only go back to the 1530s! Biblical fundamentalists, who think they know what prophecies mean have no knowledge of the history of Christianity. They are ahistorical.

  • tgvas

    this Pooop is satanic

  • amongoose

    Petrus Romanus, the last pope.

  • Larry Szczepanik

    be prepared Jesus is coming SOON

  • Rob Kane

    Just curious, what religion were Adam & Eve?

    http://godisnotreligious.net/

  • judethom

    This is crazy. Unacceptable. The two religions are not compatible. The Orthodox patriarch should withdraw. He should know better. People Francis is naive and a fool.

  • harold bruce

    you tube the final pope? this is the false prophet spoken of in revelation. that will play a big part in the anti Christ taking over the ecumenical church. it’s amazing that we are in the final days before our Lord’s return (the rapture)

  • Tee

    This pope has dropped his cross took off his armor & said do as thou will to the world in my eyes. Following Christ isn’t about making peace.Peace comes through Faith..

    • Dani California

      That sounds ominous. Don’t help the poor and work for peace Earth, covert or die. Quite ominous indeed

  • TheGuru

    1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

    2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

    3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

    4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

    5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

    6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

    7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

    8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

    9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

    10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

    11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

    12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

    13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

    14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

    15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

    16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

    17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

    18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

    19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

    20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

    21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

  • TheGuru

    EVIL is Gathering for ITs Final Sacrafice, the BIGGEST in the Histry of ManKnd !!! get your houses in ORDER

  • TheGuru
  • Rick

    “Sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace”. Bob Dylan

  • Mr.Joe

    The Pope is the biggest Piece of Poop on Earth!

  • Doc Lemm

    There’s zero difference between mindset of the “God” Yahweh and Allah. Both have been conjured up by clergy… This imaging is clearly nothing more than the collective ego of the believers… As long as the massive

    • Chuck Chuckson

      But there IS a massive difference between Allah and Yahweh on one hand and Jesus and his Heavenly Father on the other.

      The “God” of the Old Testament is Satan in disguise.

      google – “the old serpent chained pdf”

      • Doc Lemm

        I’m referring to the psychological make up of both “deities” and they are the same.

  • dan from ohio

    are redemption draws nigh,Christ is coming soon for his bride.

    • Dani California

      *our

      • dan from ohio

        i stand corrected,thanks

        • Dani California

          np bro

  • Franx

    The pope is uniformed regarding the quran and he uses human wisdom to do what he’s doing. What he’s doing is to unify different religions to pacify them. He does not know that he becoming an instrument in paving the way for the coming beast and the anti-christ.

  • Chuck Chuckson

    *anti-Pope

  • Muhammad Abbass

    The Koran absolutely forbids any Muslim from attempting to convert a Christian or Jew, who are known as People of the Book and follow the same religion as us. The Quran does not advocate war or violence as you say, but it does include stories of both and teachings about how such things must be. (The Bible has just as much warfare and violence, if not more) We have an honourable code of warfare for example which puts the West to shame. The ONLY people we are told to kill are Kafirs, which are Muslims who have turned against the religion and God. This would effectively describe the Wahhabis who are the Saudi allies of the USA and Israel actually and who openly hate all other Muslims and who live up to the worst stereotypes of Islam spread by hateful idiots like you..

    • ForTheMusic

      pfftt the human race is hateful on way or another. It’s in the human blood and mind.

  • melsH

    My first thought was maybe he wants to help usher in the second coming… Who knows for sure his motives? But those who think good works alone are what makes the man Godly are wrong. Even the evil do good works. We know not to judge simply by that.

    I agree with many of his decisions, and up to this point, was a fan. I’m no longer one. I can see no good coming from this. I can see another backstabbing for the Jewish community… That’s just speculation, mind you. However, if I were Jewish, I’d be ticked.

  • Sonokar

    I’ve been around for 50+ years not really aligned with any one political or religious interest but just kind of taking it all in listening to everybody on all sides.

    And let me tell you.. these Luciferian Elitists with their NWO Agenda and Libtard Followers are dangerous.

    • ForTheMusic

      agreed

  • mastersoftheobvious

    ThomasMann correctly observed: “Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil”

    Winston Churchill made this assessment of Islam that has proven to be amazingly accurate.
    “Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the
    influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow
    it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.”

    Many of us knew little about Islam before 9/11/2001 but there is no excuse for ignorance now.
    Islam is evil. Period. There is no overlap with Judeo-Christian values and no room for compromise.
    Islam should be opposed by the Vatican not brought in to say prayers.

    I have tried hard to like this Pope, in spite of some of the things he has said, but this is beyond the pale.

  • Daniel

    “…A soldier on duty doesn’t get caught up in making deals at marketplace. He concentrates on carrying orders.” (2 Tim:2:4; msg) No matter the pressure, a soldier is expected to stay the cause in spite of all odds, because in this fight with the world, we have been assured of ultimate victory.

  • Crook Ofraud

    i think the pope’s larger message was for people to choose what they think is right… where as islamo shits force people into their cult of death and hate, the pope said ok present your shit and lets see who follows instead of saying “convert or die” islamo shits are going to be on earth after the rapture, they will get Jesus’s wrath in revelation 17 and 11 etc