Feds Order Another 21.6 MILLION Rounds of Hollow Point Ammo

Feds Order Another 21.6 MILLION Rounds of Hollow Point Ammo

ammoThe outrageous and unexplainable purchase of now 1.6 BILLION bullets by the Feds can be summed up in the following sentence.

the DHS has purchased enough bullets over the last 10 months to wage a full scale war for almost 30 years.

That from the news that feds have ordered yet another round of ammo, this time 21.6 million rounds of hollow point .40 and .9 ammo. The FedBid document has the order details. The document reads to suggest the ammo is heading to a training facility in New Mexico. Perhaps this is indeed the final destination for the ammo. But why would the feds train with more expensive hollow point ammo? And 21.6 million rounds?

Last weekend I fired about 250 rounds of .40 at a range here in Virginia. This over a period of two hours. If my math is correct (and it may not be thanks to public education), it would take me eight hours a day, firing 1,000 rounds a day, for approximately 59 years, to fire that much ammo. And that’s just a single order for the fed.

Where are our representatives on this? What is going on with all of this ammo hoarding?

  • http://www.facebook.com/norm.levesque.3 Norm Levesque

    Maybe they plan on shutting down ammo factories, or got a really good deal for Our tax dollars. I wonder why the .40 pistol hollow point ammo, not a normal military issue caliber.

    • http://www.facebook.com/terry.d.waters Terry D. Waters

      It’s clear our government is very much afraid of it’s citizens.

    • Freddo Gigante

      The border patrol, a division of Homeland Security, utilizes the .40 S&W in the HK P2000 sidearm, as well as the UMP40 submachine gun. That being said, that’s a lot of rounds to only fire as warning shots at Mexicans trying to cross our borders!

    • http://www.facebook.com/bradley.haddon.1 Bradley Haddon

      Because all the agencies ie FBI CIA ATF use the .40

      • http://www.facebook.com/shawn.hicks.9041 Shawn Hicks

        Ahh but you all didnt know that the fed last year passed a mandate for all government agencies to convert to the FN FiveSeveN or FSN pistol that fires a rifle round very similar to a .223. It infact uses the same bullet and primer, the brass is smaller though. The claim is that this pistol is capable of placing 10 rounds within 2 inches at 200 meters. I havent been able to do this myself yet with my FSN but i think it is possible. So what bothers me is that they ordered this much ammo for guns they are phasing out.

  • unknown3rdparty

    If the federal government can’t violate our constitutional rights to keep and bear arms (and the ammo to use them), then they try to stop us from purchasing ammo by rendering it unavailable, by spending our tax dollars buying it up so we cannot. Pity they can’t “take a number” and wait while all orders in front of them are processed like the rest of us are doing … or be told that “we don’t do business with the federal government because of credit problems”.

  • DeanForward

    Kind of like the Chinese having to
    buy bullets for their family members’ execution

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shelly-Summer/100001496686882 Shelly Summer

    Don’t trust liberal lapdog media nor corrupt fed Gov’t that’s only mission is to grow power while eating itself alive. Liberty at Risk!

  • http://www.facebook.com/jason.schmitt.39 Jason Schmitt

    The bid is for 100000 .40 JHP and 100000 9 JHP and 40000 FMJ 9. Where did you get the 21.6 mil?

  • http://www.facebook.com/jason.schmitt.39 Jason Schmitt

    The bid is for 100000 .40 JHP and 100000 9 JHP and 40000 FMJ 9. Where did you get the 21.6 mil?

    • http://twitter.com/tericossette teri cossette

      Jason, 100,000 rounds x 100 x 2 (.40 JHP & 9 JHP) + 40,000 x 40 (FMJ 9) = 21.6m

    • http://www.facebook.com/todd.felumlee Todd Felumlee

      Read the quantities!

  • http://www.facebook.com/carl.packard.7 Carl Packard

    tell em get in line

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Scott-Sheldon/100000185087920 Scott Sheldon

    What is the ammunition purchasing power of the NYPD with 40,000 officers?

    At approximately 50,000 of the 105,000 Federal LEOs using 400 to 800 rounds per year for DHS quarterly qualifications and training is 20 million to 40 million rounds. That shouldn’t be a huge surprise. Add in to that total the operational needs for the US Coast Guard, Marine and Air Interdiction Service and teh Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) which are all part of DHS and the numbers don’t look all that unusual. FLETC also trains the recruits for 91 different Federal and partner agencies, not just DHS, and conducts advanced training for
    those same agencies. FLETC also conducts many State, Tribal and Local training programs. FLETC alone trains approximately 5,000 basic recruits per year, and with approximately 1,000 rounds per student just for the basic pistol training and qualification required for graduation that is 5 million rounds per year just for new hires. Then add in shotgun and patrol rifle training and the numbers of rounds just goes up in totals from there. I really don’t see anything that wrong with the numbers of rounds being purchased.

    We shoot duty ammo for almost everything. The ballistic properties for “Target” ammo is different enough to invalidate most qualification courses, state, local or federal. Those agencies that use target ammo only use target ammo for basic practice. Usually only for indoor ranges where there are issues with using lead ammo. All LE agencies outside of the military use hollowpoints. I have to qualify quarterly with all of my assigned weapons. All training and qualifications are done with
    standard duty ammo. Old ammo (that which has been carried since the last qualification) is used first, and fresh ammo is then issued for duty carry. There is no real surprise in the numbers, and yes we shoot paper with hollowpoints, and other purchases by other federal agencies is right in line with that of DHS. The timing is targeted at the federal budget cycle. These purchase requests all started in the third and fourth quarters of the Fiscal Year so that the contracts would be filled in the new FY after October 01, 2012. Nothing different than other large government purchases. Vehicles, paper and thumbtacks go through similar processes. Though there is a move to make most office supplies purchased through smaller local contracts, the total expenditures follow a similar budget request for each agency.

    See the attached stories


    Obscure federal agencies triggered a firestorm of conspiracy theories this week after they put out
    orders for thousands of rounds of deadly hollow-point bullets.

    But the agencies, most recently the Social Security Administration, are trying to put a damper on the speculation — noting the ammunition is “standard issue” and simply used for mandatory federal training sessions. “Our special agents need to be armed and trained appropriately,” said a message on the official blog for Social Security’s inspector general office explaining the purchases.

    The bullet purchases drew widespread attention as the website Infowars.com published several stories on them that were linked off the widely read Drudge Report and other sites. Infowars.com catalogued a string of recent purchases — first by the Department of Homeland Security, then by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and then the Social Security Administration.

    The Social Security Administration solicitation, posted Aug. 7, called for 174,000 rounds of “.357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point pistol ammunition.” Infowars.com speculated that the purchases were being made in preparation for “civil unrest,” imagining a scenario of economic collapse where seniors could cause “disorder” if denied their Social Security benefits.

    But the Social Security Administration statement, posted Thursday, noted that their agents need
    firearms and ammo in the course of training, investigations and responding to threats against offices and employees. “As we said in a recent post, our office has criminal investigators, or special agents, who are responsible for investigating violations of the laws that govern SSA’s
    programs,” the office said. The agency said it has 295 special agents across 66 offices in the country. “These investigators have full law enforcement authority, including executing search warrants and making arrests,” the statement said. As for concern about the type of bullets — hollow points, which expand upon impact — the statement said the type is “standard issue” and is used during “mandatory quarterly firearms qualifications and other training sessions.”

    The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or NOAA, found itself scrambling to respond to a similar report this week about an order for 46,000 rounds of ammo. Though the
    agency initially indicated it was for the National Weather Service — leading to questions about why the National Weather Service could possibly need so many bullets — a spokesman clarified the bullets are actually meant for the NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement. A “clerical error” resulted in the order saying the ammo was for the weather service.

    Spokesman Scott Smullen said the error’s been fixed in the bidding system. He, too, said the ammo is “standard issue” and will be used by 63 enforcement personnel at NOAA during qualifications and training sessions. “NOAA officers and agents enforce the nation’s ocean and fishing laws to ensure a level playing field for fishermen and to protect marine species like whales, dolphins and turtles,” he said.

    According to NOAA, the specialized agents are supposed to have 200 rounds in their “duty
    bag,” and qualification and training requires another 500-600 rounds per agent.


    DHS Buys in Bulk to Save You Money

    Kevin Doran

    May 15, 2012

    The congressman has received some letters and emails regarding the Department of
    Homeland Security’s (DHS) recent purchase of a large amount of ammunition and
    other equipment. Obviously the thought of one branch of our federal government potentially stock piling weapons and/or ammunition is of great concern. For that reason, the congressman wanted me to let you know the full story on this issue.

    DHS contracted with a manufacturer for 40 caliber ammunition not to exceed 450 million
    rounds. Like with most of their contracts, prior to negotiating DHS headquarters in Washington reaches out to all the agencies under their umbrella, including state and local police forces, Customs and Border Patrol (CBP), etc, and asks them all how much of a certain item they need. Once they have an account of the full amount of an item needed and have reviewed those
    requests, they put out a request for an “Indefinite Delivery Indefinite Quantity” (IDIQ) contract. This contract allows them to purchase up to a certain number of needed items without requiring them to purchase a specific item and allows them to purchase this item over a certain number of years. This is a common form of contract used by DHS for many of their needed supplies,
    including working dogs, computer equipment, vehicles, etc.

    In this case, DHS entered into a contract that allows them to purchase up to 450 million rounds of 40 caliber ammunition over the next five years. They cannot exceed 450 million rounds and are not required to purchase 450 million rounds. Basically, they have a tab with a manufacturer to order more rounds as they are needed over the next five years – not a onetime ammunition order.

    Setting up contracts in this manner allows for a cheaper purchase price, saving money over the long-term. In fact, contracts like this one saved taxpayers $336 million in FY2011 alone. Additionally, purchasing in bulk like this helps DHS headquarter conduct better oversight over its agencies and ensures consistency among all the agencies under DHS. So, in this case CPB, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the U.S. Secret Service, and other DHS agencies will all use the same 40 caliber round so these rounds can move between agencies if need be
    – another way to potentially save money down the road.

    To put this more concisely, just like you and your family take that monthly trip to Sam’s Club or Costco to get your bulk needs cheaply, DHS also buys in bulk because it saves the American taxpayers money.

    If you take the number of agencies that will be using this ammunition – CBP, Citizenship and Immigration Services, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), ICE, the U.S. Secret Service, Transportation Security Administration, the DHS police force, and all the guards that protect the various buildings these agencies are housed in, and spread that out over 5 years, you start to see that 450 million rounds really isn’t that large of an order. Especially
    considering it is used for training purposes like firing range and live fire exercises, on-the-job use (though that is very limited), and to shore up their supplies. In fact, there are 65,000 – 70,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS who would be covered under this IDIQ ammunition contract. If DHS were to purchase all 450 million rounds over 5 years, then that would equate to only about 1,384 rounds of ammo per year per law enforcement personnel (or about 155 rounds per month (about 10 magazines worth of ammo per month) or 3-4 rounds per day) assuming the lower estimate of only 65,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS. Considering those agents go through training exercises several times per year, that is not a lot of ammunition.

    In this post-9/11 world we need to make sure those who are tasked with protecting our homeland both from threats abroad and at home have the training and equipment needed to carry out their duties to help ensure our way of life. Firearm proficiency is an important part of any federal officer’s training and for that reason the purchase of sufficient amounts of ammunition is critical to maintaining an effective protective force. However, with all government spending Congress needs to keep an eye out for any mismanagement or misappropriation of funds in federal agencies, and the congressman will continue to be vigilant on this front to ensure our nation’s tax dollars are being spent wisely. He wants to thank all of his constituents for bringing this issue to his attention and encourages everyone to continue to reach out to him with any questions or concerns they may have.

    Kevin Doran is Congressman Westmoreland’s deputy chief of staff and handles Second
    Amendment and national defense issues.

  • iceph03nix

    what the hell is .9 ammo? I’m assuming you mean 9mm, which has no decimal because it’s a whole number.

  • http://www.facebook.com/KPFUndertaker Kpf Szef

    well I am not sure some of the wording of govnt contract crap can be misleading. Far too much hi chatter for my taste and the forms are not always the clearest in the world. However, I am not a great mathematician but if I read the contract correct the single case qty appears to be 100,000 x 100 qty = 10,000,000 million total rounds each of the .40 jhp and the 9mm jhp[, and then you have the 9mm fmj which read 40,000 single case qty x 40 total cases = 1,600,000 total rounds. Now correct my math if I am wrong but 10,000,000 + 10,000,000 + 1,600,000 = 21,600,000 total rounds of ammunition. In an alternate universe it could be construed as 240,000 rounds 100.000 + 100,000 + 40,000 = 240,000 rounds. I see no feasible way to extrapolate 1.6 million rounds from the figures given. Someones math skills are bad, mine or yours? Only the government knows for sure. I would love to know from the manufacturer who obviously wrote this bid sheet what they meant. Have you ever tried to read a billing statement for medical not a lot of difference.